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| Other Interveiws > |
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| ARI Newletter Interview |
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| You could have had a career in
the West with a Yale-Harvard education. Why didn't
you? |
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| I guess
I am a child of Bandung, the generation of post-war
baby boomers from Africa and Asia who want to build
a new world. We felt we had to walk the talk, and
chose to 'return home'. Many others faced greater
difficulties and challenges in terms of political
repression or economic hardship. I am proud to belong
to this generation, many of whom still struggle on,
making sacrifices far greater than mine, which economists
would describe primarily in terms of 'opportunity
costs'. |
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| What contributed to the
making of Jomo, the much feared and respected public
intellectual? |
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| Are
you kidding? Who is afraid of me? I don't want anyone
to be afraid of me, except perhaps my son. (laughs)
Being named after two of those led struggles for independence
must have made some difference. From an early age,
I became conscious that there was more to life than
my reasonably comfortable middle class existence in
Malaysia. I cycled round the island of Penang and
started hitch-hiking in secondary school and thus
saw other Malaysias, especially after joining the
military college. After two years of university, I
came back overland from Europe, through Turkey, Iran,
Afghanistan, Pakistan and India while still in my
teens. After graduating the next year, I went overland
through South America, spending more than a month
in Chile before 9/11, 1973. Such exposure, and more
academic knowledge gained at university in the early
1970s set me on my present trajectory.
After returning to Malaysia to work on my thesis in
1976, I spent a lot of time learning from others who
had sacrificed so much for independence, freedom,
justice. Later, we published a monthly magazine for
five years (1979-83) before getting banned, over a
hundred books and pamphlets on contemporary and historical
issues we deemed important. We also helped others
like the great Indonesian writer Pramoedya recover
the voice denied to him by Soeharto's goons.
After the stupid repression of 1987, I started paying
more attention once again to the rest of the world,
after focusing on Malaysia for the first decade after
finishing my thesis. This meant a return to a more
conventional academic career, writing, publishing,
etc. for the few dozen others interested -- unlike
the much bigger impact of writing for the public.
Since the 1990s, I have spent a lot of time working
with others on research and publication, and in this
way, I think we now have a community of people with
serious policy alternatives to offer in terms of industrial
policy, trade, finance, investment, human resources,
technology, etc. I have also been trying to do more
in the region and in the South more generally, to
fight the TINA nonsense that there is no alternative.
This was the motivation for setting up IDEAs (www.ideaswebsite.org)
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| What made you leave academia
for the public sector? |
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| Push
and pull factors. I had long been urging friends to
try to work to strengthen the UN to help governments
reject the TINA mentality promoted by some of the
powerful in the West. But I did not think of joining
myself until things got very bad for me at work. I
agree with Kissinger that while academic politics
involve vicious methods, the stakes are petty. Hence,
I decided to opt out, rather than fight -- much to
the disappointment of my friends.
I was mainly interested in work in which I felt I
could make a difference and did not really seek out
the job I now have as I did not have government support.
I had nominated a friend for it, but she decided not
to go for it, and that is when I became a candidate.
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| Is cooperation among Asian
countries possible with Japan, Korea and now China being
the dominant economies? |
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| I think
it is not only possible, but necessary, for the same
reason that the European Union will count for much
more as it integrates, but this must be a co-operation
sensitive to diversity, rather than one which seeks
to deny the unevenness in the region.
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| Has China taken foreign
investment away from ASEAN countries? |
Well,
foreign direct investment (FDI) in the world has gone
down since the late 1990s. In the 1990s, more than
80% of FDI in the world consisted of mergers and acquisitions
(M&As), more As than Ms in the South, actually.
In the region, China's share has gone up from less
than 40% to about 70%, so the perception is that China
has taken away FDI from the others, but I would argue
that it is not so straightforward. |
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| Is the Free Trade Agreement
(FTA) between China and ASEAN a South-South win-win
case? |
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We have
to get away from this silly recent infatuation with
FTAs. The Bush Administration started pushing them
through Bob Zoellick, the US Trade Representative
and possibly next World Bank President. Some in the
US claim it was meant to push others to sign up to
the WTO's multilateral agreements. Some governments
try to use it as a signaling device to advertise special
offers, etc. and to try to lock in the other partner.
Most FTAs have relatively little on trade issues per
se, as they usually involve relatively open economies.
Instead, FTAs are more often about special investment
incentives and strengthening intellectual property
rights (IPRs) -- a type of monopoly, contrary to FTAs'
free trade pretensions.
China wisely declined to have an FTA exclusively with
Singapore, and asked for one with ASEAN instead. Thus,
while the US has a friend in Singapore, China gained
nine others in the region by signaling that it would
not do a deal keeping others out.
However, a variety of regional economic cooperation
arrangements is possible, and we should be looking
to explore the implications and desirability of such
arrangements, rather than think narrowly only in terms
of FTAs.
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| Should Asian development
models become the norm-setters for the developing world? |
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| The
miracles in the region should be reminders that there
are alternatives, and to expose and reject the neo-liberal
myths of the Washington Consensus or its new variations.
Asia offers many lessons to others, but we must be
modest, and not think that we have all the answers
to all the problems in the world. Even though lessons
from elsewhere can be important, successful development
strategies must fully appreciate and build on local
conditions. Even transplants must grow deep roots
to be strong. Can we honestly say that Asian investments
or technology are inherently better across the board?
We must reject Asian or any other type of chauvinism,
whether Christian, Confucian, Hindu or Muslim. We
must be proud without being arrogant or haughty, and
presuming to know all.
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| What do you hope to accomplish
in your tenure as Assistant Secretary-General of the
UN? |
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| Well,
I will have to learn very quickly to begin with. Unlike
most of my colleagues, who have spent time in national
or international bureaucracies or governments, I have
much to learn about the system, what can and cannot
be done, and so on.
As you know, the UN has been under siege for some
time. The world has also changed, and the current
configuration of international power is incompatible
with international democracy, equality or justice.
There is a lot of pressure to further diminish the
UN's work on economic and social affairs. We must
work hard to convince the General Assembly and the
world of the importance of the work the UN does, especially
in these areas. But more than that, we will have to
be pro-active to provide the scope for international
leadership in these areas. There is no world government,
but international cooperation is increasingly urgent
to address a growing variety of global challenges.
The UN Secretariat must provide the relevant guidance
and even leadership in this area.
END
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